Through her involvement in The Uluru Statement from the Heart leadership team and beyond, proud Pitjantjatjara woman, Sally Scales, uses art to uplift Indigenous communities.
SALLY SCALES IS A POWERHOUSE. Through her involvement with The Uluru Statement from the Heart leadership team, The APY Art Centre Collective and beyond, over the last few years, the proud Pitjantjatjara woman, mother, leader and artist has used her voice and art to uplift Indigenous communities and bring national recognition of a need for change.
Last year, NAIDOC Week fell less than two months after Anthony Albanese committed to The Uluru Statement in full during his election-night victory speech.
The Uluru Statement is, at its core, “an invitation to the Australian people from First Nations Australians. It asks Australians to walk together to build a better future by establishing a First Nations Voice to Parliament enshrined in the Constitution, and the establishment of a Makarrata Commission for the purpose of treaty making and truth-telling.”
Accordingly, ahead of NAIDOC Week last year, Scales designed a collection of T-shirts as part of a collaboration between The Uluru Statement and The Iconic to raise awareness for the proposed reforms as the nation teeters on the brink of change.
BAZAAR sat down with her to discuss the collaboration, her artistic process and why now, for all Australians, it is “go time”.
Sally, in your own words, who you are and what you do?
Oh, my God, what I do? That’s always the tricky thing. I’m Sally Scales, I’m a Pitjantjatjara woman from the APY lands — which is the Anangu Pitjantjatjara Yankunytjatjara lands. It’s in the northwest corner of South Australia. But I’m based in Adelaide now.
I’m a part of The Uluru Statement Dialogue Leadership team — working with Professor Megan Davis and Pat Anderson. I’m also part of the APY Arts Centre Collective in multiple roles, and recently became an artist after, I like to say, I’ve been an intern in the arts for 15 years, having learnt from my elders, my grandma and my mum.
You’ve now designed for The Iconic collaboration with the Uluru Statement. Would you be able to describe the significance of Voice, Treaty and Makarrata for someone who might be unfamiliar?
So what I did was Voice and Makarrata — a Yolngu word, which means coming together after a struggle — which were the two key points out of The Uluru Statement from the regional dialogues and the National Constitutional Convention that happened.
A First Nations voice is so important to restart in this country in a way that is much needed. It’s allowing communities to be at the forefront of decision makings, it’s allowing us to be at the seat at the table. We’re forever on the menu. We’re always discussed in a way, but we’re without our own input. And that is what the voice is. So very much the importance of all of that voice, Makarrata (Treaty – Truth) is, let us be at the table, let us be decision maker. So many issues happen for us — without us. And we’re at a time now where we need to be doing better. We need to be having conversations with communities at the start of the process, not at the end of it.
Also there’s always been this myth that all First Nations communities are the same — and that’s how they’re dealt with. It’s a stock standard, one shoe fits all and it’s actually not. That’s I look at with Uluru and go, that’s the change. That’s what we’re trying to do.
Community is obviously at the heart of the Uluru Statement, and I know for you, as well, that that family really influenced your design process. I was wondering what parts of the designs were influenced by you, your mother and your grandmother?
So below ‘voice’, that the bottom V, the roots coming down, that’s my mum. That’s her design. Then underneath the Makarrata, that’s my grandma’s aesthetic and mine’s the big circle. But the influence of my grandma and my mum, they’re influencing my paintings all the time , and for me having learnt by incredible First Nations leaders.
But I’m so privileged in that, being from the APY Lands where there are so many incredible artists, who are nationally and internationally known. And I get to be a part of that community. I get to be with those elders and leaders, I get to be with my family.
And it’s the continuation, right? So for First Nations artists, especially from the central desert, it’s a continuation of your practice. You’re learning, you’re learning the Tjukurpa, you’re learning the law and culture from your community.
I don’t like the word Dreaming, or Dreamtime — Dreaming or Dreamtime is a deeply insignificant word for our connection to Country. In the APY lands, we have Tjukurpa … it is the connection of the songlines- songs and dances, it’s the connections of the creation stories, it’s the connections of the sacred sites, and it’s also the connections of family.
So for me, painting my mum and my grandma is just a continuation of that. And I’ve also borrowed some aesthetics from Anangu artists that I admire, but it was from the APY lands, and definitely having all of that. When you grow up, you automatically have that, oh, this is what my mum taught me and this is what I’m gonna keep doing, and I’m very privileged to have that leadership around.
One of my favourite things, whenever I was visiting, was going and seeing all the elders and arts leaders in art centre because the art centre in the APY lands is an integral part of our community. It’s where the oldies are- the cultural leaders, it’s the bread and butter, it is the only place where you have an independent income. It’s also where a lot of decision-making is done. This goes back to the voice. My elders knew what they wanted.
We just had our grand opening for our third APY gallery. And you know, a lot of people were saying to my elders, no, that’s not possible. That’s not possible. That’s not gonna work. And they were like, well, this is what we want. And this is what we’re gonna do. You’re either going to be with us or without us. But they just went for it, that’s that ambition, and that’s also Uluru. This is an ambitious thing, but it’s also the right ask.
You sat for the Archibald recently for Tsering Hannaford and you wore the Uluru Statement shirt, and Hannaford recognised you as ‘a young woman stepping into her power’ — how was it to be recognised as such?
When Tsering asked me I was quite shocked. I’ve admired Tsering’s artworks they are so beautiful and she’s been a finalist for the Archibald for so many years. After our first planning sessions we made the decision to wear my Uluru Statement t-shirt — which is also my painting shirt, it covers two bits of my life — Uluru and painting.
But when she said that for me to be stepping into power, I find it incredible. For me, I’ve been around so many incredible leaders and so many incredible women who’ve allowed me and embraced me into their spaces where I’ve then been taken on and supported in my roles. And for Tsering to see that and say that I’m stepping into my power it’s a great honour.
It’s scary, though, because this is just the journey that my elders put me on. My elders were constantly elevating me to step into my leadership roles. My mum, when we had our opening, my first opening last year, she said to me, you were never my kid, you’re everyone’s kid … you’re fully embraced by your elders and leaders and taken in in a way. And I think that’s a thing where, when people see that and want to support you, it’s just doing what you’ve been sort of supported to do.
And I think that’s great that she saw that.
I also want my son in it so well. So my kiddo, his hand is in the portrait, that’s him in the corner. You can actually see his hand is touching mine. So for me, being a single mom and … being in these spaces he’s seen that, and he’s been aware of that and sees that sort of space.
I think women also are expected to stop when they’re having children. You have to put career over your child or your child over your career … there’s that expected fight. Whereas, for me, it’s always been like, well, my family support me to do the things that I need to do. And for Walter to see me in these spaces is very much like if I’m going to be the best version of a mum, I have to be the best version of a woman. So having Walter in that image really was about this is who I am. I’m a little bit glamorous, I’m painting, but I’ve also got this kiddo who’s part of me.
You’re upheld as a leader and a mother and an artist — how do you see yourself?
I just see myself as Sally (laughs).
I mean, I do see myself as a leader, artists, mother and daughter. I’ve been fortunate to be in this space and be given the space of leadership by my elders and the communities that I work with. And for me, it’s been an absolute joy being an artist and finding my feet with that journey.
This is the thing is, I see myself as a woman in this world, trying to make it a little bit better, trying to make it supportive. I think as women, we have to be supportive of each other. I think that doesn’t happen enough. When you’re given opportunities, it’s also about going hang on, who else can I bring along into this journey? Who else can I support in that space? and make sure that remote communities are being heard, because I feel like that sometimes gets lost. I got a power and a privilege and a voice, and it’s about how I use it.
As I said, I’ve been an intern — working with and for 15 years with my APY elders, learning from them, and my mum and my grandmothers. I mean, my APY elder’s ambitions to have our own APY gallery was pretty amazing, I don’t think they will stop at 3!
But my thing is that I’m just a woman — I shouldn’t say just a woman — I’m a woman who’s trying to make things a little bit better and brighter. And I’m always been about supporting women, and making sure we’re heard, because we have to be supportive of each other.
Sisterhood, hey.
Anthony Albanese has promised that Australia will vote on whether a First Nations voice to Parliament will be enshrined in the Constitution. What is important for all Australians to keep in mind when it comes to this referendum and when it comes time to vote?
I think the thing that we need to remember is that The Uluru Statement was gifted to all of us, right? It was gifted to all Australians.
Yes, Labor has made this promise. Yes, this is great, this is where we’re going. But it goes back to the fact that we must keep the pressure on.
That’s the power of a referendum it’s a people’s vote. It’s us doing our civic responsibilities. It’s making sure that everyone continues to talk about it. And yes, it’s about a First Nations voice, but it was gifted to all Australians. So we should all be having those conversations. It’s also not about Australians losing their own power in that space, it’s actually allowing First Nations communities to have an effective way to talk about our issues to politicians.
Let us be a part of the decision-making around the laws and policies that govern Indigenous communities in a different way … but all Australians must have that conversation. We all need to lean in, we all need to keep talking about the Uluru Statement. The referendum takes all of us being involved, it takes us all voting. Because we’re changing the Australian Constitution, that’s what we’re wanting to do.
The Uluru Statement leadership, the dialogues and that leadership coming from that, where it was all those communities saying, this is what we want.
We get ignored in Canberra, or we give recommendations, do reports, royal commissions … but are the MP’s listening to these voices that are constantly saying, this is what we want?
There is so much more, much more, we can all do more. Allow us to be in that position to sit there and tell you what’s needed, how we can improve our communities … we know how to be a part of that solution base, my elders are demonstrating it all the time.
But really it’s brilliant, that him [Anthony Albanese] and Labor have gone yes, we’re doing it … But it’s about all of us, collectively, still having that pressure on, going you’ve promised this, you have to deliver now. We all have to lean in and keep that pressure on.
I think that’s going to be something really amazing when we see it, because this is going to be the biggest change in that all of our lives, this is history making. You know, it’s changing it for the better but it’s really engaging people back into what your civic responsibilities are. What is your responsibilities as an Australian? Yes, you voted, but how are you then making sure that you’re following up?
I would say this; for every person that goes to a protest or a march, follow that up with a letter. Follow that up with a letter to your MP. Also, you can ask for a meeting, ask them what are you doing? What are you doing about this issue? How are you dealing with this issue? Because we’ve allowed these MPs to sit in these spaces — whether it’s state MPs or federal ones — we’ve allowed them to sit in their spaces representing us. And we just have to do more, all of us have to go no more of this — we keep the pressure on. It’s great that you promised it, so let’s go.
I think for all of us, it’s go time.
